Traveller-digest      Tuesday, August 24 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1007



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: RE Squad Leader
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
Re: Experience System 
Re: Orion Drive Modules 
Re: Another look at aliens [long]
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
Re: Hudson-class Lander (GTL9)
Re: GURPS Vehicles weapon design question...
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
Re: Hanging on to 3G Starship
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
re: Will the real Strephon.....
Re: Hard Times
Re: Strephon and Iris
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
re: Hard Times
GURPS Design: Atlantis class gunboat
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
re: Hard Times
Re: Hard Times
Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)
Re: The Heritage Trilogy
Re: Thrust effects

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:32:10 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RE Squad Leader

> :-) Nope, Canadian.  Note that I did specify TL 9 (perhaps
> I should also specify CT TL 9).


Canadian Technology TL9?    #;-p

Okay, I take your point.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:39:52 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

> "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk> writes:
>>Well, every single ship in Brilliant Lances (that's all the classic
designs)
>>has contra grav, except for the Lab Ship, Donosev, Chrysanthemum and
Aurora.
>>All those four are unstreamlined, and thus not atmosphere-capable.
>
>A USL ship can land in an atmosphere with CG, provided the bracings are
>adequate (ie it is stressed to take local gravity). In most cases this is
>probably the case as the ship can take accn from the drives.


Quite true. I guess the designers of the Lab Ship, Donosev and Chrysanthemum
felt that was not required by the mission profile, and that the Aurora was
built mostly out of bubble gum and baling twine, so maybe CG was a luxury
they couldn't afford (or find the bits for).

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:52:19 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

>This brings up an interesting question: why can't an USL ship land in an
>atmosphere?  Considering the fact that some of them have 6G of thrust, a
>mere 1G of gravity shouldn't bother them (of course, if it's the AG that
>provides some of the structural strength, then you'd need to keep that on).


I think of it more an issue of internal stiffness and bracing. If, for
example, we took a current-day aircraft carrier, strapped a huge mother of a
rocket pack to its belly and lifted it out of the water on our single thrust
point, it would just plain snap in two. I'm sure we all know why it would do
that - because it's supposed to have water supporting it along its length.

That's the kind of thing that happens when you move something outside of the
environment for shich it's designed. A spaceship designed never to enter a
plant's gravity well (except in orbital freefall) would have exactly the
same problem. Sure, you could redesign an unstreamlined ship to have the
internal bracings (or distributed thrusters) necessary, but I think that's
actually the majority of what you pay for when you buy a
TNE-streamlined/HG-partially-streamlined (as opposed to an
TNE-airframe/HG-streamlined) ship.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:55:48 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Experience System 

>> #:-p
>>
>> That wasn't a comment on PBEM, Keven. Please don't kill my character...
>
>He might need to 'keep an eye out' for danger.  <grin>


Before you start making bad puns, remember that Gil Hamilton's in the middle
of an asteroid ring right now with at least three active Zhodani ships and
one that's acting decidedly funny nearby......

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:01:17 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Orion Drive Modules 

>Why would you use *water* for this purpose?  Why not freon?  And besides,
>wouldn't the graphite 'blast shield' deflect the heat away from the plate?


I can drink water. (And breathe the vapour without *too* much trouble.)
Freon I'm not so fond of. A hige steam cloud over the landing pad doesn't
cause many environmental problems. That's assuming a world with a
breatheable atmosphere to start with, of course.

Graphite's also not the best thing to make a blast shield out of. Graphite's
most important property is its softness (lubrication, pencils, etc). Not
something I'd want to be shooting high speed rocket efflux over for any
length of time. They're probably expensive to replace.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:44:58 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Another look at aliens [long]

>When my wife, Monkey Girl <snip>

Wha...?

Nick
- ---
It's always refreshing to see a happy marriage...<g>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:06:20 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

>>Well, it can only get a limited fraction of local gravity
>>perpendicular to gravity.  Contragravity is like a thruster plate,
>>except that it can only be used close to a planet, since its thrust
>>is reduced proportional to the local force of gravity.
>
>You two are talking different pseudo-sciences.  <g> Nick, you are
>correct for TNE CG and for GURPS Vehicles CG, too.  CG doesn't
>doesn't produce thrust, simply negates gravitational attraction by
>some amount (up to 99% for TNE).  CG in MT, T4 and maybe GT (I
>haven't checked the book) can produce directional thrust.  It can
>IMTU, too.  <g>


Ahah - you meant FFS *Two* when you said FFS. That explains most of the
discrepancy.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:15:12 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Hudson-class Lander (GTL9)

> From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>

> I always heard "The Generals Are Born Again" in the background whenever I
> read Rebellion Era TNS stories.

und die Generale
na, gerade die!
die reden von Heldentot
von grossen Heldentot

I've forgotten who wrote the song.  I listened to it in German class
back in college 20 years ago.  There are other verses about die
Finsterlinge who talk of beautiful red dawns.  

(and the generals/yeah, exactly them/they talk about the death of
heros/about great hero-deaths)

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:31:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Prankard <cmdrx@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Vehicles weapon design question...

>I'm either missing something here, or there's a problem...

>I'm designing my own weapons for a ship I'm building, and then comparing
my design to 
>the "standard" designs - and mine are coming out quite a bit more
powerful. The reason, 
>as I see it, is the power requirement.

>Pow = kJ * 2.666 * ROF 

>For a TL 10 360MJ laser (ROF 1/2)

>Pow = 360,000 * 2.666 * 0.5 = 479,880kJ or 480MJ.

>This is exactly half of what the "offical" design says - it has a 960MW
power cell, not 
>a 480MW. If you correct the design, you can get a bigger laser - around
584 MJ.

>I'm including the weapon, universal mount, full stab, power cell, power
plant that 
>provides 1/60 the power of the cell (to recharge it in 60 seconds) and
access space 
>around the power plant. Am I missing something?

>  Andy

What you have built here is a 'rapid fire' laser!
While all weapons in G:T are built for a RoF of 1/2, most are only given
enough power and capacitor for RoF 1/60.  In this way you get more weapon
in the module as you alocate a smaller slice of fusion power to charge up
the battery.  More power, faster recharge and thus quicker RoF. But using
the module design system, you loose space for your actual weapon.

Standard weapon is therefore: 
360*2.666 *1/60 = 16Mw

At higher RoF, you get a bonus to hit.  +4 at 1/60, +9 at 1/2! 

HTH

\\  // Commander X
 \\//  CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC
T E K  Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research
 //\\  http://www.magicnet.net/~cmdrx/xtek/xtek.htm
//  \\ 0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:26:32 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

>It may be able to float in dense
>atmospheres, anyone  want to try and work out how dense for say the type S
>scout? Also would inertia in such a case mean the planet will gently
revolve
>leaving the ship behind?


It wouldn't get left behind.  Either there is no atmosphere, in which case
the ship is in a low surface orbit, or there is and the ship will act like
an rather heavy airship, with air resistance trying to accelerate it the the
location's windspeed.


For a scout, the ship displaces 1,400 m3 of air.
At 1 atmosphere, air masses 1.2 kg /m3.
So the scout displaces 1,680 kg of air, providing an upthrust of 16,800 N at
1g
The scout masses 477,000 kg empty, but has a weight of only 47,700 N (at 1g)
due to CG.

For complete bouyancy you'd have to increase the pressure to 2.83
atmospheres.
Alternatively, you need to provide 30,900 N of vectored thrust, equivalent
to running the scout's engines at around 0.006 G.

NB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:31:20 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hanging on to 3G Starship

> Imagine that you are standing on a street corner, holding
> a suitcase.  Unknown to you, a rope is attached to the
> suitcase and runs straight down into the sewer right next
> to you.  There are three guys, each your size, in the sewer
> who suddenly jump and hang on the rope.  Unless you have
> some kind of warning (perhaps the thrust takes a second to
> build) IMHO it would be well nigh impossible to hold on.
> Even with warning, it would be very tough.


With that anology you're going to get a LOT more than 3G of acceleration as
the rope snaps tight.

Just nitpicking

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:35:58 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

>Interesting however, If CG ONLY negates garvity then this leads to the
>use of tugs to land ships. This brings the traveller universe even
>closer to H. Beam Piper's. I remember a number of references to tugs
>used to land CG ships in his stories.


Or even large airships could work. You manoevre underneath one at
stratospheric altitude, they attach cables and wind you in, then descend
(maybe requiring assistance from your manoevre drives for thrust).

I quite like that idea.

NB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:06:11 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Will the real Strephon.....

Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> writes:

>I'd personally like to see TNE declared a second variant timeline and the
>primary timeline restart at the end of HT, without Virus. But I guess
>there are
>so many possibilities in earlier milieu that the issue is anyway (no pun
>intended) moot.

That's pretty much my feeling on the matter. I find the collapse of HT more
believable than Virus; however, Virus does has some interesting ideas.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:30:30 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Hard Times

"William Barnett-Lewis" <wlewis@mailbag.com> writes:
>Personally I _still_ want a follow up on Avery... Still, in some ways, this
>was the best bit published in the whole sad effort of the MT cycle...

There is quite a bit on him in the Regency Sourcebook.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:35:22 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Strephon and Iris

"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> writes:
>As I've said before, the lack of preparation for Lucan (and probably Varian)
>speaks heaps about the nature of the Late Imperial Court, as does the fact
>that Strephon did not tell either Tranion or some senior members of the
>Moot about his absence. Either Strephon was a total incompetant, or the
>highest Imperial officials and the model of Imperial honour could not be
>trusted with the fact that the Emperor was away from court. Given the
>balance of what we know about Strephon, I'd say he wasn't a total
>incompetant, which leaves ...

Some thoughts - Strephon is (SM source) devastated by the news of the death
of his wife and daughter by one of his allies/appointed men. In shock, he
lets them take him somewhere safe. His trust in his aides is misplaced as
all he really needed to do is get back to Capital and Code Blue the Navy
base. Lucan would have fallen in line (faced with his uncles' return),
Dulinor would have been a murderer and the people of the Imperium would
have 'one clear choice'.

The failure in Strephon was to be human and allow his grief to blind him to
his aides' decisions. On them must fall the blame for the deaths of
Trillions of sophonts following the Collapse and the release of Virus.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:43:03 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

>Sorry, suspect I was mixing up TNE and T4.  Ok, I guess all the grav
vehicles in TNE are impossible, since using HEPlaR in atmosphere is suicide.


Most of the published grav vehicles in TNE with design breakdowns use
HEPlaR. It's not necesarily suicide to use HEPlaR in an atmosphere, it'd
just be a hell of a lot less efficient than in space since you can't use a
needle-thin exhaust stream moving at a significant fraction of c.

The whole problem can be handwaved by the presumption that one accepts a
ludicrously-low-Isp-drive without also requiring a
ridiculously-high-exhaust-velocity. In my head, that's easier to accept than
the concept of a reactionless drive. Sure, it'd never work *really*, but at
least it uses principles I'm familiar with, rather than some strange
mystical science.

>However, every version of traveller other than TNE had CG providing
manuever capabilities (well, GT doesn't, but it doesn't strongly distinguish
between contragravity and reactionless thrust anyway).


I don't know about MT (and I have a pretty low opinion of much of T4's
science - sorry if the author's listening) but I'm told GT contragrav just
nullifies weight, and as far as I was aware Classic assumed use of T-plates
for manoevring under contragrav.

NB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: re: Hard Times

Keith Johnson <kejohnson@2xtreme.net> wrote:

>The Short Dusk of Hard Times is a far more interesting setting than what is
>presented by the Reformation Coalition/Regency setting, IMHO.  HT took a
>shooting war game (which doesn't really appeal to me except in a "metagame"
>concept) and made it something I could use with my players in many
>different directions.  I never really disliked TNE, but after seeing Hard
>Times vaporized by the Virus I am starting to get irked.  Hmmm... I think
>this is how TNE haters are born. :)

Very much agreed.  Hard Times is an incredibly rich book detailing a
fascinating setting.  What I liked least about TNE was that it took all
that richness away.  All those worlds struggling to maintain space travel,
keep their life support working, ward off pirates, and/or keep in contact
with the rest of the universe were totally trashed and reduced to very
similar dead worlds or TL 0-4 wrecks.  TNE is fine as its own thing, but
it feels much less like Traveller than Hard Times. 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 19:10:49 +0000
From: igor@truserve.com
Subject: GURPS Design: Atlantis class gunboat

Here's my attempt at a ship design - comments encouraged...I'm 
working on the deckplans and 3d model for the ship - should be ready by
late this week...

FYI, the writeup is the the "language" of my campaign world, 
which is a pocket empire between the Imperium and the Two 
Thousand Worlds - so some "standard" Traveller terms are 
different...

ATLANTIS CLASS GUNBOAT (TL 10)

  The newest vessel in the Taneian fleet, the Atlantis class 
gunboat is designed to be a jack-of-all-trades, serving as a 
patrol vessel, escort, picket, and SO (special ops) vessel.
  The Atlantis is highly advanced, and equiped with an extensive 
suite of electronic warfare equipment. These systems serve it 
well in all its roles - lying in wait for privateers and pirates, 
altering its signature to appear like a merchant vessel, and 
providing electronic warfare support to fleet elements.
  The vessel has a bunkroom capable of holding a total of 
8 individuals. This bunkroom is intended to hold prisoners if the 
craft is operating in a patrol capacity, or a squad of RATs 
(Rapid Assault Troopers) when working as a base ship for special 
operations. To further support RAT operations, the Atlantis mounts 
a single OIC (orbital isertion capsule) launcher and OIC storage 
rack, as well as Golem Assault Armor storage. When not operating 
as a SO craft, this space is largely wasted, athough a small amount 
of cargo can be placed in the Golem storage area.
  To handle a large number of prisoners, or to assist in the
evacuation of a damaged ship, the Atlantis has forty low berth 
units.
  The crew of fifteen consists of the Captain, XO/Navigator, 
Medic, Helmsman, Sensor/Commo Operator, Electronic Warfare 
Specialist, three engineers, and four gunners. The Captain and 
XO have their own staterooms (being officers), while the rest 
of the crew lives in double-occupancy rooms. A large common area 
keeps the ship from seeming too cramped. 
  Per normal Taneian operational doctrine, the Atlantis is 
equiped with enough life pods to support the full crew (six pods 
support 24 people, enough for the crew and a squad of RATs). 
The forty low berths are also ejectable in a large powered module,
allowing for the entire compliment to escape a doomed vessel.
  For offensive power, the Atlantis has two laser turrets and
two missile launchers. The missile launchers are standard
triple tube launchers, capable of launching standard missiles.
The lasers, however, are large single-barreled weapons giving
the Atlantis a long range energy punch. All of the weapons retract 
into the hull to provide a undisturbed surface for stealth 
purposes.
  The harshest criticism of the Atlantis is its armor - or more
properly, the lack of armor. Compared to ships of the line, the
Atlantis is rather fragile, being vulnerable to even turret
lasers. The vessel is intended to rely on its stealth and ECM
to avoid danger.

  400-ton SL Hull, DR 400, 2 turrets with one 1,330-MJ laser each, 
2 Turrets with three missile racks each, Radical Stealth, Radical 
Emission Cloaking, Total Compartmentalization, Hardened Command 
Bridge, Engineering, 128.5 Maneuver, 12 Jump, 80 Fuel, Drop Capsule 
Launcher, Drop Capsule Rack, Battledress Morgue, Electronic Warfare, 
8 Staterooms, Bunkroom, Sickbay, Utility, 40 Vehicle Bay (10-ton 
lifeboat and 6 5-ton life pods), Fuel Processor, 5 cargo.


Statistics: EMass: 1,490.84, LMass 1,700.93, Cost MCr165.647,
HP: 37,500, Hull Size Modifier: +8.

Performance: Accel 3.02Gs, Jump 2, Air Speed 3,697mph.

Name            Type  Acc  SS  Dam       1/2D Rng  Max Rng   ROF
1,330 MJ Laser  Imp   34   30  6dx151(2)   47,000  141,000  1/60



+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew Akins                                                       |
| Home: igor@ames.net - http://www.ames.net/igor/                    |
| Work: andya@cms-ia.com - http://www.cms-ia.com/                    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IMTU: tc++(**) ru+ ge 3i+ jt- au+ ls+ kk+ hi+ as+ va+ dr+ so+ zh+  |
|       vi+ da+                                                      |
| Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
|       b+++ DI+ D-- G e+ h---- r+++ y++++                           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:08:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

Nick Bradbeer writes:
> >Sorry, suspect I was mixing up TNE and T4.  Ok, I guess all the grav
> vehicles in TNE are impossible, since using HEPlaR in atmosphere is
> suicide. 
 
> The whole problem can be handwaved by the presumption that one accepts a
> ludicrously-low-Isp-drive without also requiring a
> ridiculously-high-exhaust-velocity. In my head, that's easier to accept
> than the concept of a reactionless drive. Sure, it'd never work *really*,
> but at least it uses principles I'm familiar with, rather than some strange
> mystical science.

Actually, if a drive has an exhaust velocity of less than Isp*9.8 meters/second,
it violates conservation of momentum and is just as bad as a reactionless
thruster.  My personal favorite is total conversion thrusters, where the
majority of the energy is assumed to escape in some invisible way.

> I don't know about MT (and I have a pretty low opinion of much of T4's
> science - sorry if the author's listening) but I'm told GT contragrav just
> nullifies weight, and as far as I was aware Classic assumed use of T-plates
> for manoevring under contragrav.

Only classic source that told you was Striker, and there you could use pure
contragrav.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:08:56 +0100
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: re: Hard Times

On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, SD Mooney wrote:
>Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>For MT Knightfall is also pretty good (though the most of the best MT material
>>was published by DGP).
>
>Knightfall = Produced by DGP
>
.. but published by GDW so surely not part of forbidden canon ...? 
For example, to a large extent MT Referees Manual = Produced by DGP
- --
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:17:33 -0400
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Hard Times

It's the publisher that count, since that's who the copyright falls to.
Anything that was published for Traveller by GDW reverted to Marc and
remains part of True Canon. Anything published by DGP is "owned" by He
Who Deserves Red Ants in His Bed and is, therefore, part of the
Forbidden Texts.

Mike (lost in Templerism) 

Mark Watson wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, SD Mooney wrote:
> >Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >>For MT Knightfall is also pretty good (though the most of the best MT material
> >>was published by DGP).
> >
> >Knightfall = Produced by DGP
> >
> .. but published by GDW so surely not part of forbidden canon ...?
> For example, to a large extent MT Referees Manual = Produced by DGP
> --
> Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:18:38 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects (was HEPlar lives!)

>Actually, if a drive has an exhaust velocity of less than Isp*9.8
meters/second, it violates conservation of momentum and is just as bad as a
reactionless thruster.  My personal favorite is total conversion thrusters,
where the majority of the energy is assumed to escape in some invisible way.


But the important thing (to me at least) is a distinction between the
quantitative, scientific analysis, and fundamental principle. With a HEPlaR
drive *something* comes out the back of the engine. If there's a nice
cinematic flame or exhaust stream then, well, the engine obviously ought to
be going forwards. Any TV sci-fi will show that. T-Plates require a whole
quantum step forward in suspension of disbelief.

On the flip side, usual rules apply here. We all use what works for us.

(Actually I'm not sure what we're actually debating now - I'm sure the
original point mutated into something else along the way.)


>Only classic source that told you was Striker, and there you could use pure
contragrav.

I only have 1,2,3 and High Guard. Point conceded.

NB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:17:56 -0400
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The Heritage Trilogy

At 07:45 AM 8/24/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >Ah.  I haven't gotten that far yet... I'm currently in the middle of
> >Armageddon Inheritance...
>
>Sorry for opening my big mouth then.  <oops>.  Remember there are 3 books in
>this series :
>
>Mutineer's Moon
>Armageddon Inheritance
>Heirs to Empire
Yup, I'm on Heirs now.


>I wish he'd write more in this series, and get that sequel to "In Death
>Ground" finally published.  I've been waiting to continue that story for
>ages.  I never liked his Honor Harrington stuff..too much aristrocratic
>detail for me to stomach.  I like a good fight story.  :)

well, I actually really like the Harrington, but I think Mutineer's moon is 
somewhat better.  I found the first book to be awesome, the first half of 
the second book rather dull, and the second half of the second book 
incredible again.  Just started the third one...

What's the In Death Ground about?  I haven't seen that one yet...

           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)

- --
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will
                          defend to the death your right to say it."
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
                          			     -- Albert Einstein
for PGP public-key and
more quotes, finger: jg42@gerfalcon.tzo.com
WWW Page: http://www.cadif.cornell.edu/~falcon/                

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:26:58 -0400
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Thrust effects

At 10:12 AM 8/24/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Juliean Galak writes:
> >This brings up an interesting question: why can't an USL ship land in an
> >atmosphere?  Considering the fact that some of them have 6G of thrust, a
> >mere 1G of gravity shouldn't bother them (of course, if it's the AG that
> >provides some of the structural strength, then you'd need to keep that >on).
> >
> >As for the atmosphere itself, that's only an issue if you do a fast, TL7
> >spacecraft style landing.  Given either CG or Thruster
> >Plates/Reactionless thrusters, it should be possible for a ship to take a
> >few hours to _slowly_ come down through the atmosphere and land gently.
> >Same on takeoff.
><snipped>
>
>         Entering the atmosphere may be possible, though awkward if
>         the ship must be pointed straight up all the time, but
>         landing requires more than surviving the atmosphere.  I
>         have always assumed that "streamlining" includes landing
>         gear, wilderness refueling equipment, and general design
>         considerations that allow access to the ship when it is
>         landed.

well, that's an acceptable solution for small ships, but that still doesn't 
explain why it's "streamlining" that's at stake here.  I can see a 5000dt 
USL freighter slowly settling, nose up, into a prepared berth in a 
downport, where various gantries grab onto it for support, and fuel hoses 
attach to the same nozzles used in orbital refueling.  The ship never 
completely powers down, and takes off, slowly, as soon as it's unloaded and 
re-loaded.

This would save a fortune in interface craft costs, and any maintenance 
that requires full power down can be done in orbit.  Of course this ship 
can only land at prepared locations, but for high-volume, high-pop routes, 
that should be ok. (Hmm... Maybe it can use drop tanks, too... :)  )

           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)

- --
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will
                          defend to the death your right to say it."
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
                          			     -- Albert Einstein
for PGP public-key and
more quotes, finger: jg42@gerfalcon.tzo.com
WWW Page: http://www.cadif.cornell.edu/~falcon/                

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1007
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